The Big Questions.

[clivehinchcliffe]

HI All,

Their has been some debate in the emails about this issue and yet again the NO lobby keep quoting price as their big opposition.

Lets get this in context the first point is that UK second generation tramways are so over engineered that they have people in the rest of Europe laughing at the UK.

In Brussels a recent extension to a tram route cost just 4m Euros per track Km the UK cost would have been at least 10m Euros.

The cost of moving services in the UK is always paid by the tramway but in countries where the cost is split between the tramway and the utilities then surprise there are much less movement of services.

Talking about hills and trams F can not have been to Lisbon where the hilly route trams knock the socks off the bus fleet on some very steep hills using normal traction.

The trams are always full and the bus half empty. The largest guided bus system in Australia run into a big problem when they came to renew their fleet in that the normal width of buses has changed.

They have the option to lay new track or get some one to build a small order of buses to fit the existing tracks.

With trams the 2 main gauges have not changes for over 100 years.

Now what happens if we charge buses the true cost of operations.

Remove the government money paid to keep the cost of fuel low. Charge them the true cost of providing and maintaining the roadway, bus stops, stations.

Now we will find buses are not low cost at all. Light trams of all types can provide a very high quality service that people will want to use for the same cost or less then the much ventured BRT.

A point in case is in Bristol where the BRT system only partly guided and not including the cost of buses will now cost some 40+ m GBP.

The same route using ULR including trams is 23m GBP but because the consultants do not think it can be built buses will be installed.

The people of Bristol will get a second class system because some people who have no experience of ULR will not believe competent track constructing companies (who say it can be done).

Do not get me wrong buses have a role in feeding tram, LRT and metro systems. Powered by renewable fuels.

The flexibility of buses if often mentioned yet if you want to double the service with buses you need double the staff as you can not couple them. With trams you can double the capacity at the same staff cost.

It may seem strange to people in the UK but here in Belgium the Flemish transport service is to build 187 Km of new tram and LRT routes.

Proposals include H2 electric buggies at each stop for use locally included in the cost of the ticket.

Even in the Car capital of the USA they are building new LRT and tramway systems.

Check out the attachment and see if this is what you want in your town.

Regards CJH.

[Chris Cook]

Taking up rails and laying this

Busway

at a cost of gazillions is financial bloody madness.

[clivehinchcliffe]

Hi All,

The bus dose not need to stick to the same route, this week it goes down road "A" and next week it goes down road "C or F" or anywhere you like.

Trams or railways can not change their route overnight and so are not flexible.

The strange thing is that it is the fixed route that makes trams and trains so popular.

In the 1930 the London Tube system was extended into open countryside and towns pooped up around the new stations such as Edgware, Stanmore etc.

Now no one has ever heard of a new town popping up along a bus route. Bus services develop after new housing or out of town developments as an after thought.

The flexibility is the buses undoing as people do not know if the service will still be here next week let alone in 10 years time.

You do not chose to live where transport may be withdrawn at any moment.

Of course ULR and other low cost tram systems can be extended or diverted from as little as 1m pounds per system Km.

The true cost of bus operations are never taken into account.

Cjh